How Do You Feel About Haggling?
When travelling in less developed nations, is it right to knock the price down, or should foreigners be expected to pay more? Does hard bargaining denigrate the seller? Are locals taking advantage of tourists? Are other tourists ripping locals off? Or raising their expectations when it comes to over-charging foreigners? Relish it or loathe it, haggling is often a part of taking home souvenirs or getting from place to place. Here are the views of some Bradt authors and readers.
"What's fun for the traveller may be a matter of full or empty stomachs for the vendor's family. Yes, prices will be higher for foreign visitors, but why not pay what the article is worth rather than what the vendor is willing to sell it for?"
Hilary Bradt
"What something's 'worth' is what 'someone is willing to sell it for'. Why should that be different simply because you are foreign?... Haggling is a universal human activity and always requires a degree of hyperbole. In my experience, no trader ever feels denigrated when eventually your cash crosses their palm."
Conor Woodman
"As a westerner living in a developing African country my daily routine involves a complex haggling ritual for all transactions, from parking fees to pineapples. I buy mangoes (or whatever fruit's in season) on the same street corner every day. Yet despite being a regular, every day we go through the same ceremony. For my half kilo of mangoes convention dictates that the price must start ludicrously high, somewhere around what a local wholesaler would pay for half a metric tonne of the fruit. The custom can't be rushed however, so several well-rehearsed lines later we're back down to the same price we paid yesterday, and the day before that. There's no question of causing offence - if my price is too low, it's refused. And if I accidentally pay for half a tonne but still get only half a kilo, then frankly I'm fair game for exploitation!"
Alasdair Harris
"So many hours of labour/craftsmanship go into making items sold for next to nothing to western tourists in markets in underdeveloped countries. The difference between an original asking price and a price a tourist may bargain someone down to could be the vendor's family's daily meal or similar."
Alison Holman
"It depends so much on the individual circumstances. As with most things travel related, it's a matter of common sense & balance; no reason to allow people to screw you over just because they are poorer than you, but at the same time I'd tend to err on the side of generosity when it comes to small sums or when I sense I am pushing somebody past what they feel is a realistic selling price."
Philip Briggs
"Paying 10% or 20% more than the local rate is not a problem but paying significantly more will not have positive effects in the long run. Mangoes in countries where they grow can cost 1% of their price in western supermarkets, so many western tourists would be content to pay 10 or 20 times the local rate. But such overpayment is tantamount to handing out cash for free, and we've seen so many times the effects free handouts have in changing attitudes for the worse in poor communities."
Ruth Nutt
"The difficulty with bargaining responsibly is tourists may have no idea of the local value of what they are buying. I've encountered travellers excited at having got themselves a total bargain when actually they were charged five times the local price; I've also encountered tourists who feel they've been ripped off when truly they got a good deal. It's an inevitable result of visiting a place with very different economics from home. In Madagascar you can get a hundred times as many lychees for your money as you would in the UK (with the seller still turning a profit), yet a can of deodorant may cost triple the UKprice. In order to haggle ethically, travellers need to be armed with good information on the value of goods locally."
Daniel Austin
"I think haggling is an inherent part of a trade, a cultural trait, in some countries but in others it isn't at all. Travellers may make the mistake of haggling in countries where it is not part of the process, indeed it may even be completely inappropriate. I would like to think travellers make the effort to do two things: find out whether haggling is the norm; calculate how much a price reduction means to both them and the vendor in real terms - in other words, put it into perspective. I have seen people quite literally punch the air after achieving a price reduction equivalent to US$1 - a trivial amount in the US but a daily wage in some parts of the world. A little research and a lot of compassion ought to be guiding principles."
Paul Crask
"Many tourists loathe the idea of haggling the price of a minor curio with someone whose annual income is infinitely smaller than their own, and would gladly pay the full asking price. Others treat it almost as a gladiatorial sport, spending hours screwing the very lowest price out of a hapless salesperson. Good sense and fair practice lie somewhere in between. Unfortunately there's no magic formula for what percentage you should haggle down to – different vendors have different pricing policies."
Paul Murray
"The problem comes when it makes more sense to massively overcharge Westerners rather than do the job well for locals. Going for big short-term gain rather than long-term sustainable profit just keeps people poor and destroys business development. And, long-term, the making-a-living-by-overcharging-foreigners model does immense damage to often vital tourism industries."
@MrDavidWhitley via Twitter
"Westerners often don't realise haggling is rarely about money; it's about interaction. It needs humour and compassion."
@MatthewTeller via Twitter
"In southeast Madagascar where I work, many street sellers struggle with mental arithmetic, so assisting with the adding up reduces being overcharged."
@AilieTam via Twitter
"Haggling is a must. Here in Vietnam starting prices for visitors aren't based on reality and are often more expensive than in my own country."
@FishEggTree via Twitter
"It's a common tourist practice. But I've been to very few places where I've seen locals haggle with other locals. I think the "you have to bargain there" myth is self-perpetuating – if tourists want to bargain, local merchants will learn to do so to deal with their customers."
Evan Prodromou
"Haggling is expected in Madagascar but both parties are also expected to know the real price and end when it is reached."
@Malagasy via Twitter
"You will see tourists sitting for half an hour drinking tea bargaining over a scarf. Locals do not do that (for cheap things). Its just a couple of offers each way and a deal is done in seconds."
Niels Elgaard Larsen
"Haggling is expected in Vietnam for sure."
@BernardCustard via Twitter
"Haggling is common in some countries, such as China, Turkey and Egypt. If you don't haggle, you will get ripped off because vendors state their prices higher than what they expect to receive. They sometimes start with an insanely high price. This may put you off if you're not from a haggling culture, but realise that some vendors expect to be haggled down to a small fraction of their original stated price. If the vendor's initial offer is too high by far, feel free to laugh or show astonishment. This is usually expected and will quickly indicate to the vendor that you are aware of the item's real value. Remember that vendors are not attempting to trick people out of their hard-earned money; they are often businessmen working to support their families. When haggling, your goal is not to eliminate their profit, but to find a mutually satisfactory price."
eTripTips
"Bargaining – in street markets and shops alike – is one of the easiest (certainly one of the most visceral) ways at your disposal to interact with the locals, and, when done properly, helps earn you respect and serious street cred. In fact, in most countries, not haggling is considered rather rude, a sign of economic arrogance, or even a downright insult."
Reid Bramblett
"Haggling is expected in Turkey. A lot of foreigners have not done research before hand and end up paying over the odds."
@TurkishTravel via Twitter
"Haggling is not rude in Turkey, but we cannot say that it is 'expected'. It works in the touristic areas."
@_ZeynepK via Twitter
"Haggling assertively with humour is good. Not doing so drives inflation & makes local economies over-dependent on tourism."
@RichardTrillo via Twitter
"Turkish people haggle on Turkish markets in Turkey too. It's not 'a tourist thing'. We haggle as a normal part of trade for clothes or furniture... (but not for food). And it is not just tourists from non-bargaining cultures who sometimes feel uncomfortable haggling; whether to haggle is a personal thing for local Turkish people too. Generally I don't. If a seller quotes a price that's too high, I'll say 'no' and go to the next stall. The effect is the same as haggling because the seller typically gives his best price when he understands you don't want to haggle."
Burçin Tağal
"A price is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no 'correct' or 'right' price, or for that matter a 'fair' price. The only reason I can think of for not trying to negotiate a lower price is guilt. That somehow you, as a Westerner, feel bad about asking for a lower price from someone in a poorer country. The higher price you pay is usually a guilt tax. Local merchants take advantage of guilt and ignorance of tourists to charge more. I don’t blame merchants for trying to make a buck, but at the same time, there is no reason why you should have to pay more than you need to. There is nothing wrong with haggling. It is the way the world works."
"Haggle like a local, not just in Asia but the world over. It's not just a financial thing; it can’t be. Take an Asian street vendor's average BBQ stick of 'unknown' meat. For a local it costs $0.05. From me he wants $0.50. I laugh at him as if he was having a joke. Being a seasoned traveller I should have already asked a local how much the BBQ stick is before approaching and have gotten the real price first. If I pay you the upmarket 'tourist price', then you will do it to others, setting a bad example. The mark up is huge. I’ve seen certain 'rich' tourists not care about price; it makes them out to look stupid. As travellers we are roaming ambassadors to our countries – no wonder some have a bad rap. Haggling in Asia is a part of life for everyone; we as travellers are passing guests that can, and should, enter into this great custom."
Dave, thelongestwayhome.com
"A tourist being a pushover, unwilling to haggle and content to pay often hugely inflated asking prices, only reinforces local stereotypes of foreigners as walking money-pots. Compounding such a 'them-and-us' attitude is unhealthy for all concerned in the long run."
Tim Way
"If I know I’m paying a higher price, I tend to haggle. It’s not the amount of money per se; it’s the principle of getting charged more than other people. If the vendor sees that a tourist knowingly agrees to pay more than locals, where do the price increases stop? When we were in India, I bought some food off a kid at one of the ghats for an older man. I thought the price was high, so I told the vendor as much. He halved the price immediately. It still seemed too much, but I wasn’t 100% sure of the market rate so I paid it. Two local boys about the same age as the vendor passed by and saw the transaction. They came up to me and told me that I had still paid too much and confronted the vendor to return my money (he did). The boys told me it wasn’t right for him to charge me more."
Audrey Scott, uncorneredmarket.com
"Whenever reasonably possible, I do not haggle over price. If I do not haggle or complain about the price, then right up until the handshake and the money changes hands, that person has the opportunity to bless me, and to thereby earn a reward for their good deed. If I haggle, or demand a certain price, I take that opportunity away from him. Sure, I overpay on some things; but in the long run, I've been blessed by God and can 'share the wealth' by spending my money buying from this person. The transaction benefits him just like I was blessed by receiving it. And the opportunity is his to do the same."
Kirby L Wallace
"I say haggle for the fun of it. I've found haggling to be an enjoyable experience, even if you don't get what you might consider to be a 'deal'. Once, in Singapore, I spent almost an hour talking, haggling, and having a great time, all just to buy a new lens for my camera. My sales guy was awesome; he had a great sense of humor and took great care of me. I think both of us walked away happy, monetarily and otherwise."
Austin Hill, travellious.com
"Haggling isn't about charity or relative income; it's about doing business and following local custom. If it was about relative standard of living, shouldn't wealthy locals pay more for goods than poorer locals do? They don't. If you feel guilty or sorry for people, there are a hundred ways to help them without treating their place of business like a begging bowl. Leave a tip; recommend them to a friend; offer to help someone manage or market their business better (it only takes a few minutes to correct mistranslated English on a menu or sign); or you could donate your time or money to a worthwhile charity."
Curtis Foreman
"If, for instance, you visit a severely ostracized, marginalized and all-too-often victimized community such as the Batwa in Uganda, and they bring out their crafts, there is no way that haggling is appropriate. Likewise I wouldn't do it in extremely remote places, where one can clearly see a lot of work and craftmanship may have gone into creating certain items. On the other hand I have been to countries where in larger markets, things are clearly overpriced and there, I think there is room for bargaining. The trick is, knowing when to stop, so that the seller is not bulldozed into making a loss on a particular item."
Derek Schuurman
"The way I see haggling is that it's a delicate balance between paying a fair price and not making a fool of yourself. In many cultures haggling is an ingrained cultural activity that, for the people who routinely do it, is as normal and sociable as the British talking about the weather. I don't know if I agree with 'what something is worth is what someone is willing to sell it for' - especially when it comes to goods like handmade arts and crafts items. There are desperately poor people out there who will lower their price if times are hard and they are hungry enough. I think it is more a case of something being worth what you are prepared to pay for it. I also don't think you can necessarily treat such transactions as straightforward examples of market capitalism in the Western mould. A closer look at the way that markets function in the South reveals as much cooperation as it does competition. Either way, what I really hate seeing is rude and humourless bargaining between a local trader and a tourist in which the later browbeats the former and comes away triumphantly boasting 'local price'. As someone else said, a little research and a lot of compassion are what counts."
Laurence Mitchell
"Let me ask this: what currency have you been earning in? If you've been working in the local economy, you have every right to haggle your way down. But if you've been earning twice or thrice or fifty times more than this vendor, it’s time to wake up and smell the durian, Mr Larusso. International corporations have vested interests in ensuring we all get paid just enough to keep us productive and keep us from revolting. They’ve been especially efficient in the so-called developing markets, keeping prices conveniently low for tourists like ourselves.But who am I to keep the inequality in place? To complain about an extra eighty cents? I’m not actively working to 'seek justice and encourage the oppressed' but I can afford to pay a little extra for my street food. With minimum wages in Vietnam estimated at US$57 a month compared with average working wages of $18 an hour for American or British employees, I have no grounds for grandstanding. This food is fresh, delicious and 'incredibly cheap'. Pay your extra eighty cents and enjoy it along with your market capitalism."
"Haggling over a purchase isn’t just about the money. Living life differently for a few days or weeks and stepping outside of the typical Western experience are why we travel. We aren't drawn to third-world countries by the promise of diarrhea and squatting over pit toilets. Are you worried that you will beat the price down too far? You'll be haggling with a vendor who has a lifetime of experience in the art and who knows his or her costs to the nth degree. Sure, you have a college degree and they have three teeth. Someone in the transaction has the upper hand. It isn’t you, my friend. If you feel guilty, haggle for the experience, then consider donating the money you saved haggling on your whole trip to a local charity."
Melanie McMinn
Hilary Bradt wraps up the debate:
It's been very interesting to read the discussion on haggling. Everyone makes a good point and I think it's right that the balance has come down in favour of haggling – but for locally-grown produce or services. What wasn't made clear, however, in the abbreviated quotes from Conor Woodman's original tip and my response in Wanderlust, is that I was referring specifically to handicrafts.
Here's an extract from Conor's original tip in the November, 2010 issue of Wanderlust:
'The trick is to finesse your counter offers. So, if you're buying a wooden elephant, first point out that the trunk is wonky and then that one leg is shorter than the others…'
So my point was specifically about bargaining for handicrafts:
'What's fun for the traveller may be a matter of full or empty stomachs for the vendor's family. Yes, prices will be higher for foreign visitors, but why not pay what the article is worth rather than what the vendor is willing to sell it for? And, please, never denigrate the quality of the workmanship just to push the price down. It is surely a universal human characteristic to be proud of something you have made yourself, or that your family or friends have made. Why crush their self esteem for the sake of saving a dollar or two?'
It's been a good discussion and Conor did make the point that the bargaining should be done with courtesy and humour. And I could add that in popular tourist markets you certainly need to bargain or the price for poorly-made goods will be far higher than their level of craftsmanship merits. That's what I meant by 'what it's worth'. If that elephant's leg really is shorter than the others, then why buy it?
What I was trying to say was that it's fair to pay more for good workmanship. In the past I've been as keen to haggle as anyone. I think the turning point came when I bought an exquisitely made wooden bowl, decorated with finely-carved chameleons, for the equivalent of £3 in Madagascar in the 1980s. I was so proud of this purchase, and the low price I paid. But what still haunts me is the look of uncertainty on the salesgirl's face. She was unaccustomed to tourists and should not have accepted that price. I wish I had paid more. It still would not have been what it was worth, but closer to it and at least one family might have eaten well that night. Furthermore, I have never seen its like again. Low prices encourage poor workmanship.
I know someone who bargains hard to the lowest possible price, and then pays more. Perhaps that's the answer. Both sides have enjoyed the fun of haggling, and the vendor has a nice surprise at the end.